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Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
389
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Posted - 2012.01.20 00:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you want to compete with people in highsec incursions, get a fleet together and outgun them.
Simple. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
390
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 00:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Signho wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:If you want to compete with people in highsec incursions, get a fleet together and outgun them.
Simple. you are missing the point of the OP.
No I'm not. I know exactly what the OP is wanting here, I'm just telling them that they should probably try the current game mechanics to put risk in before poking and whining and demanding that someone else's game is broken. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
395
|
Posted - 2012.01.20 18:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
This is another great example really of "PEOPLE PLAY EVE DIFFERENTLY TO ME AND I DON'T LIKE THIS. NERF THEIR GAMING SO THEY'RE FORCED TO PLAY MY IDEA OF THIS GAME, WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"
It's not going to happen, and your stupidity is only supported by like minded people who'd rather duckshoot carebears all day than go engage each other in actual competitive PvP. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 01:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
See personally I don't think it's as much a reward for the risk as it is a reward for the planning and investment.
Making 50-60 mil p/h in a pug battleship fleet is as much as you can make from L4'ing. Shiny fleets who are making the lower end of "the big money" still put the investment in to get the larger pay out and require some organisation to put together, though I'll grant and accept that the organisation is done by the few for the gains of the many. There are some SF channels with a lot of freeloaders who waltz in with a good fit and barely pull their weight in the system.
Then you've got the higher end isk makers, the 150 mil fleets. These fleets run like clockwork, the logistics and planning put in, having smooth changeovers and pre scouted sites allows them to move rapidly from blitz to blitz (different debate altogether but my thoughts on the issue of VG blitzing and how to fix it has been put elsewhere)
In site actions are fast and co-ordinated with everything done as effective as possible so to use as little time as necessary, going as far as shaving a handful of seconds off your completion time. Further more the 150 mil fleets don't make that kind of money without competing, and not just going in first, or at the same time, but hitting an already underway site and still getting the pay over the other group. Infact some people have whined at fleets like this following them around and stealing the pay from under their nose as griefing, it's competition and someone's going home with no isk, less ammo and near burned out guns that they have to sit and wait to repair (which kills your uptime further)
It's rewarding min/maxing, not just the setup but the efficiency. Now do I believe the current system is balanced so that the sites that give the best rewards are also the ones offering the most challenge? No I don't, and I'd gladly see them reworked so that the organised fleets can be making their money in Assaults and HQ's and leave the Vanguards to smaller less established fleets to make their income at an above mission grinding level.
Making them no risk duckshoots for people who want easy kills is not how to balance it, besides where's the risk for the pirates? |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 01:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Please explain how it would make incursions no-risk duckshoots. 'pirates' could be shot at just as easily as 'carebears'.
Because Incursion fleets are limited to x number of people otherwise the payouts are next to nothing.
Pirate fleet doesn't have the limit of numbers enforced on them and can roll safely in large numbers, and alpha off the NPC primaries.
Edit: And no, limiting the numbers that can enter an incursion plex is not a fix, that would break the entire point of the competitive mechanic. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 01:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:In this thread people defend the right to be incompetent while having access to high levels of income.
In this thread people want no risk pvp, and stick their fingers in their ears and "lalala" at the top of their voice whenever their daft ideas are questioned.
Perhaps you've missed my posts where I've said I'd like incursions rebalanced, I hear selective reading does that to people. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 01:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:How is it no risk PVP when everyone can be shot.
Read my above reply on this one. Where's the risk in jumping in with a fleet 4-5x bigger and just alpha-ing the incursion fleet? Let's face it, you've more risk of losing a ship in an incursion due to player error or NPC jamming of your logis than you have losing here.
Moreso when you can scan what's inside from the gate you know whether or not it's even worth going into in the first place, so you can pick and choose your fights.
Where's the risk, and I'm talking real risk here. Because let's face it, no one else is going to jump in if they see a fleet already blowing up an incursion fleet, they'll just go look elsewhere. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 01:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:You can scan and have a support fleet too. Non issue. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.
Uhuh, this is PvE content that is suppose to be easy to get into and involved with. Now ontop of them forming a fleet to run the sites you're now expecting the casual elements of the playerbase to also form defensive fleets to counter being dropped on? I mean really, the people that x up in incursion public channels and make about 50-60 mil an hour?
Sure some of the more organised groups may well be able to form up a fleet from their ranks to defend their mission runners, but what happens to their income. They aren't getting paid to do it, share out the incursion isk? Suddenly it's worth less than running an L4 and wow we're back to square one.
Further more you'll learn pretty quick who has counter fleets and who to avoid, like in all other forms of pvp. It's amazing how many people will dodge fights when they know there's a risk they might not be flying out of this one. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running.
It would become lower income than mission running, eventually no one will run the sites and you'll be finding something else to complain about. Sorry, but the game doesn't cater to just you and your buddies. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running. It would become lower income than mission running, eventually no one will run the sites and you'll be finding something else to complain about. Sorry, but the game doesn't cater to just you and your buddies. That works the other way around as well.
Sure if I was advocating for ridiculous ways to break other people's gameplay and activities.
Quote:What would be your propositions to "fix" incursions ?
Vanguards need to be adjusted so they can't be blitzed.
For example in an OTA you need to simply shoot the Deltoles for completion (and subsequent site despawn) This requires a shiny fleet to achieve as the rat DPS after the second Deltole goes does down starts to actually hurt.
NCO's need a complete rework, as it stands Legion or Slepnier fleets can fast lock and instapop the frigate swarms in "blink and miss it" speeds.
NMC's need a timer that won't spawn the objective can before a set period.
This will nerf the organised fleets rolling sites every 4 minutes for 10 mil payouts, without affecting the pug casuals. Lazy shiny fleets will find their isk drop and the maximum potential income for Vanguards has a more reasonable cap for the absolute bleeding edge groups. If you nerf the isk payout there's zero reason for casuals to run Incursion fleets with potentially dumb pilots when they can make as much isk running L4's and be safe in the knowledge their ship isn't going to asplode because some idiot couldn't pay attention.
Secondly HQ and Assault sites need their pay restructuring so that they are appealing in isk/hour to the more organised fleets rather than rolling the more casually tuned Vanguards. Restructure the difficulty of the sites so that waves are a possible combination of several different ship types so that you can't rinse/repeat on every scenario, don't increase the volley damage however. I'm very much with the CSM on this one, instagibbing is not a mechanic that puts in difficulty, it's a pointless cockblock and lazy. Remove specific triggers and require full wave clears before progressing on (exclusion to mothership sites, where the waves spawn due to a different style of event, do keep the variation of shiptypes though)
Essentially make HQ/Assault sites more challenging, but make them financially more appealing than Vanguards. PvE in EVE at it's highest level should not be a memorised playbook that you found on a website. There should be a need for the FC to actually FC, there should be more potential for things to go wrong, player error should be more forced. |
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